Seaway Property

lostsoul · Seaway Property

OK here is how it stands, I have contact info for the Security office of the Seaway and will be contacting them tomorrow. The plan is this, I want to get their input in order to facilitate the group as a whole or on a member by member application, seasonal passes to use the property that they see fit to allow us. I will admit that I do not know exactly what they are going to require to do this, but I am going to tell them that as a group we are willing to do what ever it takes to make this happen. There will be rules involved I am sure, so stay tuned and I will keep you up to date as it goes.

allan3306

Let's get this started

mudbug

Very interesting Cool

89lxstanger

fuck ya! im in

big t

thats a good idea...

todd

I'm in even if there's a price to pay. Maybe tell them will spend a weekend cleaning the trails? I'm more than happy to fill my truck with crap from the trails and take it to the dump if thats what its going to take.

lostsoul

I have a bunch of ideas in the works, but anything you guys can think of as far as ideas to approach them with are welcome. I am actually going to try and get a sit down meeting and do this face to face as apposed to an over the phone thing.

allan3306

Your going to need more than one person to be taken seriously

todd

Well if you can manage to get them to agree to a face to face meeting i'm sure there's a few of us that can be taken seriously to try and get something going for us and the trails.

lostsoul

I know I will need more than one, this is the open the door call. I want to get all the info I can so that we can have a proper meeting with these guys.

allan3306

Rob i'm in so let's do this

todd

Alright mother, i just wana do what i can so we can see SO4x4 wheeling GM possibly this summer and the next etc legally.

lostsoul

Lets Keep this thread cleaned up as I may want to go online and show them the interest that has been shown on here to the idea. I will edit the thread out to make it look better if needed, but please keep it on topic here. I want every member on here to come into this thread and post their interest in doing this so that it looks good on our part.

big t

im sure if you get a face to face you will have plenty of points and bodys..

but i vote james has to cut the wings... banged up full size with wings might make them nervous

todd

Well i did gett a hair cut and its mad short now but big t lets keep this on topic.

big t

just sayin...

but yeah with what james was saying maybe one run a month do a clean up sweep.. or help with clearing trees or snow fences volenteer style on the weekends...

offroading atvin dirt biking and everything is so popular around here there needs to be a legit place..

Woody

This is an excellent, well thought out and lucid idea... you suprised me Rob ! lol Seriously, I think the main hurdle that we would face is the Seaways issue with liability and security.But if we can persuade them to take interest in us by offering trail maintanance and clean up for example, it might help.If we were to offer a service like this in exchange for use of the trails it may at least grab thier attention.For example,if they were to provide a roll off bin , and we got together as a group and filled it with the rubbish that is piling up back there.Also, if we were to point out our commitment to our Charity run in the fall to show that we are not a beer guzzling, property destroying bunch of idiots, but instead a responsible,enviromentally aware , community based , family oriented group, that would help as well.

I also agree that this post should stay very much on topic...it is an important issue that effects us all in this area, as both GM and East Side Welland trails are Seaway property for the most part.

scrappy

let me know what i can do to help

vissers

i am intersted in this and willing to help out aswell just let me know what i can do

FreakbuiltYJ

Are you planning on visiting the Security office to talk to them? Or are you going to just use the security contact to get info on the higher ups? Security is not going to be able to give you permission or do anything on this issue, you are going to have to speak to management about this. Security is usually a contracted out company that does it.

The Biggest issues will be Liability and money. If its going to cost them a dime, forget it. If its going to be a liability concern issue, forget it. The problem with the liability is that their insurance may not cover anyone being permitted to go back there. It also may require a group insurance on the groups part to cover being back there, and it may require that all vehicle that go back there have valid vehicle insurance. Signing a waiver may be a possibility, but to get one that would be legally binding, it would need to be signed by everyone going in and probably need to be drafted up by a lawyer who will charge quite a bit for that.

Another concern would be policing who can be there and who can't. How would you plan on policing this? If people see a group of people going back there, whats to stop them from going back there thinking its ok?

You are definitly going to need to have figured out and ready to present if they are going to take anyone seriously and not just pass you off

lostsoul

Andrew I have all the information required to go ahead with this, there is information that has not been made public at this point, but I will get this started.

FreakbuiltYJ

No problem, sounds like a good plan, and atleast you are organising and thinging it through.

Its not as easy as some people think to get something like this done, theres alot of little issues that everyone needs to be aware of. And its best to organise it all and go in with a plan covering all bases and be prepared.

The only thing I was just thinkig that could be bad about this is that by bringing it to their attention, if they say no, you might be opening a can of worms and making it impossible to go back there again as they will be keeping an eye out for people going beck there.

lostsoul

I understand what you are saying, but I am going in with the lets hope this is a good thing and they see it that way as well.

FreakbuiltYJ

I know too, and I think its a good idea that you have, I'm just saying that there is alot of things that should be discussed and have a plan for so that it is more then just "We want permission to drive our trucks on your property and will clean it every so often and won't sue if someone gets hurt or dies out there"

I'm sure you have a plan though and its worth a shot

allan3306

Maybe even bring up the possable revenue advantages for them allowing the land to be used.

lostsoul

OK so here is where we stand, I have been talking to a woman named Karen and have some information to get started, I have to make up a general proposal for our use of the land and forward it to her. She will then send it off to the head of Security and from there they will either make the call or forward it further up the chain. I will write up a proposal and send it off to her tomorrow so we keep this rolling, but in the proposal I will let them know that we will agree to just about any terms they need us to in order to make this happen the proper way. She did think that even if they do not agree to allow us the full out use of the area, that they would allow our Charity runs to be held there with enough notice, so that alone gives me some promise.

big t

good work rob.. appreciate you spending your own time..

todd

Good to hear we have a chance in using the seaway property legally.

lostsoul

No worries man, I am here to make this work. If a little time is needed to get us working with the Seaway as apposed to against them then I am in.

Garrin & Crystal

I like the proposal of trail maintenance. C and I are behind your idea of setting up a meeting with the seaway. If there is anything we can do to help, were in.

allan3306

Good work Rob !!

Mike Dill

Rob I appreciate your enthusiasm for this but please can we proceed a little slower to allow everyones input.

lostsoul

Mike, this is at the getting in the door stage. I have made the contact and have drafted a letter that will be sent to them. From that stage, we will have a meeting and then we will go in with all our input and listen to theirs and come together if we can.

Identity_crisis

high five rob your not as useless as once though lol
but really good job ont he letter

Badger

I'am in Rob what ever i can do to help with this.

Uchi

good work rob.

sheppy4X4

This is a great idea...let' hope they go for it...i'll help out however i can.

lil bugg

im interseted to see what happens with this,
i hope we can be alowed to wheel their legaly.

angry_trucker

hey man, im in... i can try and help with what ever you need, i dont 4x4 right now but i like the thought of knowing theres a place you can go, be lligale about it and have a good time, sometimes when i used to back there all there was, was people drinking and smoken pot... and just F==King up the trails. so just tell me what you need and ill do it...

lostsoul

The letter was sent and I received confirmation within a few minutes that it has been forwarded to the Security office. We should have a response by the end of next week.

Uchi

fantastic, lets hope the liability thing doesnt affect us on this

scrappy

rob good work!!!!! work did you find out about the group insurance,for that goupe on heepkings?????

lostsoul

allan3306

Let's just wait to see what they ask for and then deal with it then. We can't act if we don't know and there is no sence spending money on the unknown.

scrappy

i think maybe we should stay out of there till we heir back from them then.no sense of making it worst

angry_trucker

has anyone been behind g.m latly? the gate by GM's gate 12 has been smashed? does anyone know how it happened OR why it happend?

lostsoul

I have an idea who did it, but I am not 100%, most of the guys that wheel there know who the clown is that does most of the damage out there.

allan3306

A prime example of why we need permission to wheel there. Sadly this kind of shit will never stop but we can always hope.

lostsoul

If they gate the main entrance then it will stop a lot of the stupid BS.

angry_trucker

i dont think it will make a diff... they will just do the same thing to that gate as they did to the post... they even moved that 3500lbs congret block... so some1 was dickin around

todd

So what's happening rob? Did Seaway contact you yet?

lostsoul

No responce from them yet, I have sent another message to see what is going on.

allan3306

It may take a couple weeks but it would be nice to touch base as to the progress. I'm sure Rob will keep us ported on any developments.

BrAnDoN

well i hope we find out soon with the situation at GM its great wheeling there hate to lose that fun place!

Billy Goat

I will support what ever decision you make. Would like to continue offroading somewhere safe.

angry_trucker

speaking of is, i forgot the other day (monday) i was in there droping off 2 1200lbs reels and i was askin about the e-mail, and they said if this e-mail was sent it's not gonna happen in anyway, reson theres a liablity waiting to happen and dont want to deal with it, from what they told me there now boosting on policeing and startin to fine with a fue months, so im told thow... this is what i could found out...

lostsoul

They are currently playing the ignore game.

angry_trucker

iin other words there not gonna get back to ya... we need to get face to face with them...!

lostsoul

Trust me man, I am trying. If they do not respond it is hard to get a meeting set up, I might have to make a call and see if I can find out when the woman is going to be there and pop over.

scrappy

get in touch with CH news mite get the ball rolling???

Mike Dill

The other day I was catching the CSL Nanticoke at lock 3. There was a Secrutiy guy there picking up the Pres. of CSL who was touring the boat.
I talked to the MARSEC guy for a few minutes about our situation. He told me that there has been many recent changes in the top spots within MARSEC. He also said that the women in charge (Sry cant remember her name) didnt have a good understanding of the size and scope of the property. Further more he felt that there is a lot of confusion with in the office as people got used to their new positions. That would mean that our requests would go unnoticed just because there are more important things (too them at least) going on. He felt that we would most likely not have a problem using the property as long as we where organized as a club, signed a waver and possible had insurance. Anyway his recommendation to me was to send a letter to the VP of the Seaway who might push it down rather than trying to go up. I said to him that the VP would probably not even read our letter and he insisted that this would be our best route.

I am constantly involved with MARSEC as I do a lot of work on Ships traveling the locks. (Catching the CSL Atlantic Erie 8:00 Monday Morning)
If I can help in anyway please ask.

89lxstanger

mike do as much digging as you can get names and where to send letters ill send out as many as i can and keep this ball rolling!

scrappy

i still say we should talk with CH news

Mike Dill

Where talkin about wheelin scoob not legalizing ......lol Just kidding

I don't think that putting pressure on them in the best idea. I think they will be more likely to just ignore us.

89lxstanger

dealing with anyone outside of the seaway for seaway property is just spinning the tires! there is nothing ch news can do to make them open it to us! nor would ch news give two shits if we use it!

rob obviously, and myself are more than willing to spend our own time trying to get this moving, like i i said mike dill get any names you can and contact info for them!

scrappy

not to put pressure on them to help with our PR and to show what we are trying to do and to show that we are not nature destroying hillbillys.Legalizing will never happen but that's another storey and another fight

Mike Dill

I'll see what I can dig up on monday.

Scoob maybe you don't see our group like a lot of people do. Just imagine a shot of one of our guys taking mud hole or a wash out. To us its a thing of beauty, to others just the fact that we use gas is a nature destroying act. Throw in the loud noise of horsepower, terra ripping tires, oil leaking beaters and may other negatives (not to mention Mikes potty mouth) and we are not a group that is liked by the public and we don't need to draw attention to ourselves.

Yes there are several ways to help change those opinions like charity runs and trail clean up but thats a topic for another day.

lostsoul

Mike good stuff, I have been on this with more leads, but I am not getting very far, I have sent info to the property manager and hope to get some type of answer soon.

Mike Dill

SHIT..... last week I worked on that shitty boat for 36 hrs straight in one shift . then again the following monday for 25 hrs straight and now today for another 16hrs. I mean the OT is nice but being the walking dead is crap.

Sry had to get that out.... I found the VP for the Seaway is someone called Michell Goulai not sure about the speeling or if its a guy or girl. You may already know this but I will find out more when I can.

scrappy

hey way to go mike

allan3306

Now that's progress ......... Way to go !!!

Mike Dill

I can't stand this waiting game. I gota do something. I'm gona check on what we'd be looking at for insurance, unless someone already knows.

jim's yj

I'm new to this 4 wheeling stuff, has there benn problems with 4 wheeling on the seaway property behind GM?

lostsoul

I have been out there more times then I can count and never had an issue, but they have charged people that have been out there acting like Morons. Most people I have talk to have told me they have been asked to leave and that is it.